00:41:44 Michael Dawe: @Mike Dawson We should probably be friends huh 😂 00:43:20 Mike Dawson: Replying to "@Mike Dawson We shou..." For sure 🤣 00:43:32 Wendii Lord: Social media posts to share with your friends! 00:45:13 Eugene Davydov - Comcast NBCUniversal Xfinity: Fellow MT & Exec Tools aficionados, welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/davydov/ 00:45:15 Michael Dawe: that's at least 5! 00:45:36 Marcelo Duran: Reacted to "Fellow MT & Exec Too..." with 👍 00:46:20 Justin Paul Lawrence: Loss of trust… 00:48:25 John Jensen: Puts it at risk. 00:49:26 Eugene Davydov - Comcast NBCUniversal Xfinity: "Hero Culture" is definately at play in tech circles. 00:49:46 Katherine: It's not great! 00:50:14 Viktor Nagy: Reacted to ""Hero Culture" is de..." with 💯 00:51:06 alan roper: Reacted to ""Hero Culture" is de..." with 💯 00:51:42 Kendra Bork: It’s so interesting how important my Requirements Elicitation class from college has become - even though I’m not technically in a tech field 00:52:01 Wendii Lord: Replying to "It’s so interesting ..." Same. 00:52:06 Robert Newman: Reacted to "It’s so interesting ..." with 👍 00:52:21 Matthew Joaquin: Reacted to "It’s so interesti..." with 👍 00:52:53 Andrew G: Reacted to "It’s so interesti..." with 👍 00:53:58 Chris Myers: In professional service delivery, we focus on maintaining alignment of expectations which are constantly drifting apart. 00:54:13 Phil Beyer: Reacted to "In professional serv..." with 💯 00:54:19 Marie T. (she/her): Reacted to "In professional se..." with 💯 00:55:01 Thor Prichard: Reacted to "In professional serv..." with 💯 00:58:34 Kendra Bork: This webinar is SO timely. We’re about to have an entire team meeting because of several projects in a row that have had the same issue: a team member having to work a 10-13 hour day to finish on time for a hard deadline. And as execs we weren’t clued in that we were getting to this point. 00:59:00 Tim Ottersburg: Amen on the shadow IT! 00:59:09 Eugene Davydov - Comcast NBCUniversal Xfinity: Indeed! 00:59:40 alan roper: Reacted to "Amen on the shadow I..." with 💯 00:59:40 Wes Pierce: We have found that leveraging shadow IT can lead to innovation that the traditional model might miss. 00:59:40 Wong, Brian: And with the advent of things like SaaS, Shadow IT is easy enough to put on a credit card, bypassing procurement and IT entirely. 00:59:53 Eden Brandeis: We're not a Technology provider, but we do provide services to the business and this is very relevant for our area too. They want to get consistent work product and to be able to depend on reasonable schedules to get it. Our turn around is much faster than most technology products, but these ideas still apply. 01:00:03 Wes Pierce: Reacted to "We're not a Technolo..." with 👍 01:00:06 Mark H Thomas: Replying to "This webinar is SO t..." Such a slippery slope too…once that starts, its so hard to turn around… 01:00:16 Kendra Bork: Replying to "This webinar is SO t..." (And trash can fire vs dumpster fire has become part of our team lexicon because of this. Thank you to the Exec Tools podcast for that!) 01:00:20 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "Such a slippery slop..." with 👍 01:00:21 kurtwestphal: Shadow IT exposes the organization to security issues, identity except tool team did the work 01:00:31 Robert Newman: Readiness team 01:00:33 svuk: Reacted to "We're not a Technolo..." with 👍 01:01:06 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "We're not a Technolo..." with 👍 01:02:05 Forrest Pitz: The timing here couldn't be any better. I was just discussing with my team an hour ago about the need for more communication around the 'black box' of prioritization. We're good at not making promises we can't keep but we're not being clear enough when work isn't being committed to. Work is just sitting in the "it *might* be prioritized in the future" bucket without setting clear expectations and communicating the why behind the work not being prioritized 01:02:18 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "The timing here coul..." with 🙌 01:03:00 Amber D.: Reacted to "The timing here co..." with 👏 01:03:08 Tara Herington: Reacted to "We have found that..." with 👍 01:04:08 Andrew G: Replying to "The timing here co..." I know that black box well... :( 01:05:22 Forrest Pitz: Reacted to "Shadow IT exposes th..." with 💯 01:06:13 Elle Stephens @worldoelle: Reacted to "The timing here coul..." with 🙌 01:07:41 Yanek Korff: Ah, the cone of uncertainty. I love the cone. 01:08:10 Phil Beyer: Reacted to "Ah, the cone of unce..." with 😂 01:08:11 Matthew Joaquin: Ouch 🤕 01:08:40 Eugene Davydov - Comcast NBCUniversal Xfinity: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davydov/ Happy to connect with MT/ET members on LinkedIn :) 01:08:58 Nick Goodman: Reacted to "https://www.linkedin..." with ❤️ 01:09:18 Mark Bentsen: Reacted to "Ah, the cone of unce..." with 🙌 01:09:21 Robert Newman: Is the team's focus being pulled away form the focus task at hand, they know they will be pulled away so they do not want to estimate the time 01:09:29 Matt Schouten: #noestimates is a thing - one thing I’ve used with my software teams to push back is to tell them it’s to serve the requester (“be a hero” mentality). And that the business needs to know about how big it is to decide. But the team has to know they won’t be strictly held to an initial estimate too. 01:09:36 Lisa McAulay: Robert — you nailed it 01:09:47 Matt Schouten: Reacted to "Is the team's focus ..." with 💯 01:09:49 Forrest Pitz: Reacted to "Is the team's focus ..." with 💯 01:10:01 Mark H Thomas: The is a conversation between the team and the representative of the need. The team will always have questions that a surrogate won’t have….and the team knows their world better than anyone…they know their team better than anyone…. 01:10:11 Michael Dawe: Lisa, you might get to an estimate just based on team breakdown of work, or with similar-sized projects. In the first case, you might get to some average on # of stories/tasks closed per sprint, for example 01:10:30 Marcelo Duran: Incredible presentation so far! Thank you, Andy and thanks to MT team. What a great community here as well. 01:10:38 Marie T. (she/her): Reacted to "Is the team's focu..." with 💯 01:11:25 Mark Horstman: Replying to "This webinar is SO t..." 👍 01:13:28 Julien Capron: Reacted to "(And trash can fire ..." with 💯 01:13:32 Robert Newman: Replying to "This webinar is SO t..." Forecasting the run rate. 01:13:40 Johnny J Leavy: Hard stop @ 1230p, thanks everyone! 01:14:34 Heather M. Hyland: Have to drop. Thank you Andy 01:15:15 Dag: Get in contact with me and I'll help you with your questions. 01:16:59 Phil Beyer: Does this process change for teams with a significant amount of KTLO (keep the lights on) or interrupts (fire fighting)? 01:17:24 Mark H Thomas: Over time @Michael Auzenne we see stable teams improve estimates….the better the conversation is with the requestor the better the estimate but for the most part they miss about the same amount high or low so it works out…this concept of estimate accuracy is something we are working to measure over lots of team and lots of time 01:17:38 Mark Walker: @Michael Auzenne: I would enjoy having that “30 minute chat” with you sometime. https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-l-walker/ 01:18:29 Michael Dawe: Replying to "Does this process ch..." Not to speak for Andy, and in my experience what'd you'd do here is just count the 'tagged' work towards the estimate. E.g. if you completed 20 points of things, and 7 were on KTLO, 13pts is your project velocity 01:18:52 Nick Goodman: I’m curious if anybody here has experience doing this in highly unstable environments — would love to connect and see what others have done that’s worked. 01:19:30 Kendra Bork: Replying to "Does this process ch..." Good question. In our non-tech industry, the interrupts are of the fire-fighting level (usually not actual fires, but we’re dealing with plumbing floods and other building-threatening emergencies where we do have to pull team members.) 01:20:37 Robert Newman: You have to account for the extra and then know when to say No to the extra 01:21:08 Phil Beyer: Replying to "Does this process ch..." Thanks for the input folks! 01:21:41 Mark H Thomas: We have started measuring “initiative focus” so we have to use that to apply to the estimate and the turndown…we have teams that can devote 100% of their velocity to the initiative and others that are 50% because they have a different operational challenge or some legacy bad tech debt…but we use the data to provide that transparency with our stakeholders 01:21:59 Mark H Thomas: Reacted to "You have to account ..." with 👍 01:22:07 Matt Schouten: Replying to "You have to account ..." Tracking the velocity over time helps with that, which is why review is so critical 01:22:44 Phil Beyer: Replying to "I’m curious if anybo..." I’m happy to connect and discuss further… lots of instability for me right now. 😅 01:22:50 Michael Dawe: "lying" 😂 01:23:01 Sarah Sentes - Manager Tools: Reacted to ""lying" 😂" with 👏 01:23:17 Yanek Korff: “Executed as planned, not distracted by any blueberries.” 01:23:21 Mark Walker: Lying 😂😂😂 Priceless! 01:23:25 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "“Executed as planned..." with 😂 01:23:30 Thor Prichard: Reacted to "Lying 😂😂😂 Pricele..." with ➕ 01:23:32 Phil Beyer: Reacted to "We have started meas..." with 👍 01:23:32 Robert Newman: Reacted to "“Executed as planned..." with 👍 01:23:33 Octavio: Reacted to "Lying 😂😂😂 Pricele..." with ➕ 01:23:54 Mark Walker: Reacted to ""lying" 😂" with 😂 01:23:56 Forrest Pitz: Reacted to "“Executed as planned..." with 😂 01:23:57 Phil Beyer: Reacted to ""lying" 😂" with 😂 01:23:58 Wendii Lord: Reacted to "Lying 😂😂😂 Pricele..." with ➕ 01:24:05 Wendii Lord: Reacted to "“Executed as planned..." with 😂 01:24:26 Phil Beyer: Reacted to "“Executed as planned..." with 😂 01:24:29 Phil Beyer: Reacted to "Lying 😂😂😂 Pricele..." with ➕ 01:25:39 Tim Ottersburg: Each step down represents a closed “story”. 01:26:01 Matthew Joaquin: Reacted to "“Executed as plan..." with ❤️ 01:26:17 Michael Auzenne: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Mark H Thomas Thanks. I find it fascinating because I’ve been having an argument internally about measuring “hours” (amount of work) vs. story-points implemented (yeah, we spent the hours, but did we get what planned in the hours spent). I’ve been arguing story points as a better representation of velocity … based on what I’m hearing here, perhaps I’m overcomplicating things. I’m not ready to say it doesn’t matter, but perhaps the issue of “are we spending the time on the project that we anticipated” is the first thing we ought to be focusing on? 01:26:48 Robert Newman: Replying to "Does this process ch..." do you have enough check points in the stories? 01:26:57 Amber D.: Reacted to "We have started me..." with 👍 01:27:36 Nick Goodman: Replying to "Does this process ch..." I’ve done nearly every type of estimation at some point in my career (as an engineer, architect, leading teams of engineers, and leading engineering orgs), and my experience has been that “hours” focus goes off-the-rails quickly b/c people try to measure too closely. By measuring something arbitrary like “points”, you waste a lot less time and get better outcomes. 01:27:53 Tim Ottersburg: Reacted to "I’ve done nearly eve..." with 👍 01:28:01 Forrest Pitz: Reacted to "I’ve done nearly eve..." with 👍 01:28:09 Julien Capron: Reacted to "I’ve done nearly eve..." with 👍 01:28:13 Geoffrey: Reacted to "I’ve done nearly eve..." with 👍 01:28:21 Mark H Thomas: Not participating happens when teams are distracted with other priorities….its really important to see that happening and jump in and make business decisions…its the fastest way to no deliver on time…we tend to commit based on ideal instead of reality 01:28:45 Robert Newman: Reacted to "I’ve done nearly eve..." with 👍 01:28:49 Thomas Cox: Reacted to "Not participating ha..." with 👍 01:29:05 Mukamal: Ah, scope creep! 01:29:19 Phil Beyer: This is all very helpful! Thanks for breaking this challenge down for us into actionable, clear steps @Andy and @Mark H Thomas !! Great stuff!!! 01:29:35 Julien Capron: Replying to "Does this process ch..." +1 to what Nick said, in my experience we also go to a point where all of our tickets were granular enough that we didn’t even need to estimate the tickets and the number of tickets became our unit basically all of our tickets were pointed the same amount of points - that took years of the same team working together to refine our scoping and execution skills 01:29:38 Yanek Korff: I like this graph a lot. You can point at the orange line and say “look, we’re almost done. But we’re going to be almost done for a long time if that green line keeps going up.” 01:29:40 Chris Myers: Replying to "Does this process ch..." I use an ideal line and a line for estimated work remaining. For trying to predict delivery, what matters is what the team thinks is left, not the hours they burned. If the overall efficiency of the team is out of whack, it will show with a divergence of pace from the slope of the ideal line. 01:29:42 Forrest Pitz: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Nick Goodman Totally agree. Hours have an emotional weight that Fibonacci numbers don't and it makes people rat hole on getting the "perfect" estimation 01:29:49 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with 👍 01:29:54 Wendii Lord: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with ➕ 01:29:54 Matt Schouten: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with 👍 01:29:56 Marie T. (she/her): Reacted to "I like this graph ..." with 😂 01:29:57 Chris Myers: Replying to "I like this graph a ..." Two more weeks :-) 01:29:59 Forrest Pitz: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with 👍 01:30:03 Yanek Korff: Reacted to "Two more weeks :-)" with 😂 01:30:08 Mark Bentsen: Reacted to "Two more weeks :-)" with 😂 01:30:10 Wong, Brian: Replying to "I like this graph a ..." It's always 2 more weeks! 01:30:13 Gordon: Reacted to "Two more weeks :-)" with 😂 01:30:17 Amber D.: Reacted to "Two more weeks :-)" with 😂 01:30:26 Gordon: Reacted to "It's always 2 more w..." with 👆 01:30:40 Geoffrey: Replying to "I like this graph a ..." and, are we going to do a change order or a new PO? 01:30:53 Mark H Thomas: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Michael Auzenne we should chat on this. I think I owe you that anyway from a previous conversation. But in my experience story points are far more accurate than hours and there is science behind it…. We also tend to commit based on ideal line and we rarely give teams the space to hit the ideal.. 01:30:55 Michael Dawe: Replying to "Does this process ch..." I like both points and hours for different things. I tend to use points for estimating whole stories - it's arbitrary, and the interesting difference aren't between a 2 or a 3, but between people disagreeing on a 2 or an 8. Hours I don't particularly care about the number except that if someone gives an hour number over 16 / 2 days of work, you can break it down more, and smaller things are easier to estimate. 01:31:10 Paul Koch: Replying to "I like this graph a ..." “The requirements didn’t change; the specification just improved in quality” 😉 01:31:19 Chris Myers: Replying to "Does this process ch..." I’m in a billable hours business, so keeping all estimates and results in hours makes sense. 01:31:19 Mark Walker: Estimations: I encourage my fellow technologists to check into estimating based on the ticket count. I have seen some interesting information justifying it, I just do not have it available right now. Message me at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-l-walker/ for more information. 01:31:26 Michael Dawe: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with 😂 01:31:32 Wendii Lord: Replying to "Does this process ch..." Stupid question - if the tech team says it’s 97 story points but you don’t think about hours, how do you know when it will be done? 01:31:38 Marie T. (she/her): Reacted to "Two more weeks :-)" with 😂 01:31:41 Mukamal: It is often very hard to get people to believe that bad news is better than no news. 01:31:42 Mark H Thomas: Reacted to "I like this graph a ..." with 👍 01:31:54 alan roper: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 💯 01:32:04 Robert Newman: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 👍 01:32:05 Sarah Sentes - Manager Tools: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 👍 01:32:08 Michael Dawe: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Wendii Lord You could go by how many points a team finishes in a sprint (or two weeks, or a month, or whatever) 01:32:18 Michael Auzenne: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Mark H Thomas Thanks. I’d love that conversation. I’ll reach out on email. 01:32:18 Chris Myers: Reacted to "Stupid question - if..." with 👍 01:32:29 Julien Capron: Replying to "Does this process ch..." We know the amount of points done in a sprint (velocity) We take the estimated total, add 20% buffer for KTLO and divide by velocity to have the number of sprints 01:32:36 Randy Y: Andy, this was a really good presentation that you masterfully presented. Well done! 01:32:36 Thomas Cox: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 👍 01:32:39 Justin Paul Lawrence: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 💯 01:32:53 Wendii Lord: OH - that’s where the “how much do we get done each week” part came in…I get it. Thank yoU! 01:32:56 Mark Walker: Reacted to "Andy, this was a rea..." with 👏 01:32:59 Michael Dawe: Reacted to "OH - that’s where th..." with 👍 01:33:01 Steven Karnis: Replying to "Does this process ch..." @Wendii Lord - if the team as a consistent velocity (for example 20 per sprint), and the total work is estimated at 97, then you are looking at 97/20 sprints ( round up to 5 sprints - depending on how long your sprint is) 01:34:04 Julien Capron: Reacted to "It is often very har..." with 💯 01:35:11 Mukamal: Andy, I am not part of a technology organization, but I must complement you on your presentation and delivery. Love that you are standing up (almost never happens on Zoom) and looking at us (i.e., the camera). The amount of effort you put into prep is evident and much appreciated. Really super! Thank you! 01:35:14 Nick Goodman: Andy, thank you for making this content fun and sharing your time and experience! 01:35:30 Sam: Reacted to Andy, I am not part ... with "👍" 01:35:36 Matt Becker: Reacted to "Andy, I am not part ..." with 👏 01:35:37 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "Andy, I am not part ..." with 👍 01:35:38 Kendra Bork: Reacted to "Andy, this was a rea..." with 👏 01:35:41 Dawen: Reacted to Andy, I am not part ... with "👍" 01:35:44 Dawen: Reacted to Andy, I am not part ... with "👏" 01:35:44 Renee Martin: Reacted to "Andy, I am not part ..." with 👏 01:35:51 Thor Prichard: Fantastic presentation. Thank you! 01:35:53 Yanek Korff: Thank you - that was really informative! 01:36:01 svuk: Great presentation I can see how this can work across many different departments. Learned a lot thanks. 01:36:08 Robert Newman: Thank you for the insights. 01:36:10 Kendra Bork: An amazing and timely presentation that really is giving me something to chew on as to how we’re managing non-tech projects. Thank you! 01:36:11 Frank Gifford: Great presentation, thank you! 01:36:23 Bill Heath: Great presentation - Thank you! 01:36:27 Wong, Brian: Great presentation. Thank you. 01:36:32 Wes Pierce: One thing I've seen as helpful is a business leader being the primary decision maker for the backlog, what is OK to be added, what the dates are being agreed to, etc. In a past role, I was hired to report to Finance, and then ended up reporting to Supply Chain. The new leader threw out the entire backlog, sent a note to the org saying he did it, and that if anyone wanted anything they needed to bring it to him. His work got done on time after that and everyone else paid for 3rd party developers to manage their queue with our oversight. 01:36:36 Tim Ottersburg: 100% utilization is death 01:36:45 Robert Newman: This is helpful to understand my counter parts tied to the sprint teams. 01:37:33 Tim Ottersburg: Traffic jams are a great example of 100% utilization of a road. 01:37:43 Robert Newman: Reacted to "Traffic jams are a g..." with 👏 01:37:46 Sam: Reacted to Traffic jams are a g... with "😂" 01:37:46 Chris Myers: Tremendous presentation, @Andy . You’ve given me some good points to use with my boss and peers to push changes that I know need to happen. 01:37:47 Lisa McAulay: Replying to "Does this process ch..." Yes — story points was the thing that my software developers and tech lead ended up rejecting. they saw it as wasted energy and time to estimate "points" 01:38:04 Wendii Lord: We have a forum post for you to continue the conversation: https://www.manager-tools.com/forums/youre-asking-wrong-question 01:38:18 Lisa McAulay: Reacted to "Andy, I am not part ..." with ❤️ 01:38:47 Lisa McAulay: Reacted to "Traffic jams are a g..." with 😂 01:38:52 Peter Ingemi: Great presentation Andy. Thank you for sharing your perspective. 01:38:55 Eden Brandeis: Thank you! Very informative. I need to drop for another meeting. 01:40:12 Eugene Davydov - Comcast NBCUniversal Xfinity: Team Stabilization is key... easier now than a few years ago when tech boom was upon us 01:40:18 fchalifour: Awesome presentation - want to keep discussing this Will the comments be visible with the recording? 01:41:04 Wendii Lord: @fchalifour I’m going to include the chat when I send out the email to let you know the recording is ready 01:41:09 Thor Prichard: Reacted to "We have a forum post..." with 👍🏼 01:41:23 Matt Schouten: Accelerate book: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339 (not an affiliate link) 01:41:27 Yanek Korff: Gotta hop to another call. Thank you Andy for a great, thought provoking conversation. 01:41:37 Paul Koch: Reacted to "@fchalifour I’m goin..." with 👍 01:41:39 Mike Dawson: Reacted to "Accelerate book: ht..." with 👍 01:41:46 Wendii Lord: Reacted to "Accelerate book: ht..." with ❤️ 01:41:48 Nick Goodman: Gotta run to move to another room — thank you so much Andy! 01:42:10 Tara Herington: Very actionable content - thank you! 01:42:19 Frank Gifford: Reacted to "Accelerate book: ht..." with ❤️ 01:42:19 Jake Colman: Great presentation. Gotta run. Thanks. 01:42:20 Julien Capron: Thank you! 01:42:25 Sarah Sentes - Manager Tools: Gotta run, thanks all, great call Andy - THANK YOU! 01:42:29 Robert Newman: Thank you for the insights... 01:43:00 Mike Dawson: Thank you for the great session Andy! 01:43:08 Paul Koch: Thank you for taking time to prepare, present, and lead an informative session. 01:43:08 Tim Ottersburg: We went from bi-weekly deployments to daily 01:43:13 Wong, Brian: Thank you! 01:43:28 Mark H Thomas: Reacted to "We went from bi-week..." with 🎉 01:43:34 Mark Walker: Reacted to "We went from bi-week..." with 🙌 01:43:44 Deb Kelly: Thank you very much for the time! 01:43:44 Joseph Compton: Thanks, great session 01:44:10 Forrest Pitz: Fantastic session. Thank you Andy 01:44:16 kurtwestphal: Thanks Andy and Wendy 01:44:20 Carrie Proven: Well done, Andy! Thank you so much! 01:44:33 Octavio: Thanks a lot! Great talk.